Talk:Sambhaji

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Sambhaji article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2: 7 days

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography

India: Maharashtra / History Mid‑importance

	India portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Maharashtra (assessed as High-importance).
	This article is supported by the Indian history workgroup (assessed as Mid-importance).
	This article was last assessed in May 2012.

Military history: Biography / Asian / South Asia Start‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion not met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military biography task force
	Asian military history task force
	South Asian military history task force

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 2 times. The weeks in which this happened:

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in to an extended confirmed account (granted automatically to accounts with 500 edits and an age of 30 days)

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

view · edit

Frequently asked questions

Q: Why can I not add "Shri", "Chhatrapati", or "Maharaj" to Sambhaji's name?

A: As per WP:Honorifics and WP:Commonname, in Wikipedia, we refer to people by their commonly used name in the cited academic sources. We do not include titles or Honorifics unless they are commonly used in the cited sources (Shambaji does not fall in this category).
Please note Charles III, where he is referred to as "Charles" throughout, not "King Charles" nor "His Royal Highness" or whatnot. We clearly note Sambhaji's titles in the article, we just don't repeat them each time his name is written.

Q: Why does it say "addiction to sensual pleasures"?

A: That is exactly what the cited sources say, and other sources note allegations that he behaved inappropriately with a Brahmin woman, or may have committed some other offense. Suffice to say, for whatever reason, Shivaji confined him to Panhala. If you know of an alternate theory for that confinement, and have a reliable source, you can add that as an alternative theory, but you cannot simply remove that explanation unless you have very strong evidence that such story is obsolete according to modern scholars.

Q: I believe the article's sources are biased against Sambhaji, why are they being used?

A: Assertions of bias must be backed up by references to reliable sources saying as much, or other highly compelling policy-based arguments. Simply asserting that it is biased is not sufficient to convince other editors.

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on May 14, 2018.

This article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:

"Maharashtra CM wants Wikipedia to correct factual inaccuracies about Chhatrapati Sambhaji". Hindustan Times. February 18, 2025. Retrieved February 19, 2025. Maharashtra Chief Minister Devendra Fadnavis has directed the state's cyber police to approach Wikipedia and request the removal of "objectionable" content regarding Chhatrapati Sambhaji Maharaj.
"'There's limit to free speech': Fadnavis orders action again Wikipedia content". The Times of India. February 18, 2025. Retrieved February 19, 2025. Fadnavis said distortion of history on open-source platforms such as Wikipedia would not be tolerated.
Mrityunjay Bose (February 18, 2025). "Remove derogatory and objectionable reference from Wikipedia about Sambhaji Maharaj: Fadnavis". Deccan Herald. Retrieved February 19, 2025. The references about Sambhaji Maharaj on Wikipedia became a point of discussion after the release of Chhava, a Hindi film on the warrior-king, which was released last Friday to spectacular reviews.
Mustafa Shaikh (February 18, 2025). "Wikipedia gets police notice over 'objectionable' content on Sambhaji Maharaj". India Today. Retrieved February 19, 2025. Following this, the Maharashtra Cyber Police issued a notice to Wikipedia, warning of legal action if the content was not taken down.
Purnima Sah (February 19, 2025). "Remove objectional reference about Sambhaji Maharaj from Wikipedia: Fadnavis". The Hindu. Retrieved February 19, 2025. Maharashtra Chief Minister Devendra Fadnavis on Tuesday (February 18, 2025) took a serious note on the objectional and derogatory content and references about Chhatrapati Sambhaji Maharaj on Wikipedia and directed the State cyber police to approach the open-source free online encyclopedia to get them removed.
"Maharashtra CM orders police to get 'objectionable' content about Sambhaji removed from Wikipedia". Scroll.in. February 19, 2025. Retrieved February 19, 2025. The state government wrote to Wikipedia after social organisations wrote to it, objecting to the allegedly inaccurate claims about Sambhaji. Some activists also warned of protests if the content was not removed, The Indian Express reported.
"Zee 24 TAAS forces Wikipedia to take action on false content about Chhatrapati Sambhaji Maharaj". medianews4u.com. February 20, 2025. Retrieved February 20, 2025. Zee 24 TAAS, a Marathi news channel, has once again proven the power of fearless journalism, launching a high-impact campaign against Wikipedia for hosting derogatory content on the revered Maratha warrior king, Chhatrapati Sambhaji Maharaj.
"4 Wikipedia editors booked over factual inaccuracies about Chhatrapati Sambhaji". Hindustan Times. February 21, 2025. Retrieved February 21, 2025. The Maharashtra Cyber Cell has registered a case against at least four Wikipedia editors for not taking down "objectionable" content on Chhatrapati Sambhaji Maharaj from the open-source encyclopedia, PTI reported on Friday, citing officials.
Abhishek De (February 21, 2025). "Case against 4 Wikipedia editors for not removing content on Sambhaji Maharaj". India Today. Retrieved February 21, 2025. Sources said 4 to 5 individuals were involved in editing and spreading disinformation about Chhatrapati Sambhaji Maharaj on Wikipedia, which could lead to a law and order situation.
Sharveya Parasnis (February 19, 2025). "Fadnavis Targets Wikipedia Over Alleged Distorted History of Chhatrapati Sambhaji". MediaNama. Retrieved February 21, 2025. Fadnavis did not specify the exact content he found objectionable. However, a quick review through the Wikipedia page reveals statements that may have contributed to the controversy. The second paragraph states that Sambhaji was confined at Panhala Fort by his father, allegedly due to his addiction to sensual pleasures or for violating a Brahmin woman. It also stated that Sambhaji defected to Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb and fought against his own father.
Divyesh Singh (February 21, 2025). "Case against 4 Wikipedia editors for not removing content on Sambhaji Maharaj". India Today. Retrieved February 21, 2025. The Cyber Cell of Maharashtra Police has lodged a case against 4–5 editors of Wikipedia for failing to take down controversial content on Maratha ruler Chhatrapati Sambhaji Maharaj, sources said. Sources said 4 to 5 individuals were involved in editing and spreading disinformation about Chhatrapati Sambhaji Maharaj on Wikipedia, which could lead to a law and order situation.
"FIR against person who made 'derogatory edits' to Chhatrapati Sambhaji profile on Wikipedia". The Indian Express. February 22, 2025. Retrieved February 22, 2025. Maharashtra cyber police have registered an FIR against a person who allegedly edited the profile of Chhatrapati Sambhaji Maharaj on Wikipedia and added content to it. The police have registered an FIR against the user Ratnahastin, who, as per the complaint, added 'derogatory' content to the profile.

Richards, John F. refs

I've merged them except for the one in the current [2] multi-ref in the lead. Not sure how to best deal with that, any thoughts? I considered removing it from the lead-ref, but I understand it might be considered relevant there. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:20, 28 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Conversion to sfn/harv reference formatting will fix that. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 20:33, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Not recommended without serious discussion per WP:REFVAR. My personal view is that named ref-tag refs is quite workable, easily accessible in ref-toolbar and VE, and perhaps considered easier to work with in general by many, especially newer editors. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:56, 5 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Mehta, Jaswant Lal ref is also in the [2] ref and other places. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:35, 28 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Fake allegations - No citations - offensive allegations

I see so many allegations on mass rapes and being poorly viewed by historians. However, I see there are no citations for the content presented. I am disheartened to see wikipedia spreading foul about a freedom fighter like Sambhaji Maharaja. The editors of this post should be condemned and wikipedia must verify such kind of posts before publishing 2406:7400:63:78E6:B97B:7956:1EEB:62BD (talk) 20:08, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Try reading beyond the lead paragraph. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 20:11, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It's fine to add citations to a sentence in the lead if there's ongoing contention about that content from casual readers. Valereee (talk) 14:41, 6 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Even if we did that they'd complain about the source in some way. "It's from a Westerner." "The guy's from New Delhi." "Source is from the 1700's." "Source is from today, how the hell would they know?" —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 16:57, 6 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I know, but at least they couldn't say "not even cited". Which is actually a valid reason to object to content if you aren't aware that the lead summarizes cited content from the body. Valereee (talk) 18:52, 6 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't mind having cites in the lead in articles like this, but since the lead is meant to be a summary it sometimes leads to huge cite-bundles, like at Jai Shri Ram and Palmer Report. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:56, 6 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I kind of feel like huge cite-bundles is the lesser evil when it comes to readers? Valereee (talk) 20:49, 6 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Being bundles, I don't think they bother the general reader. I think there are many editors who consider a cite-less lead a mark of quality, but I'd say there's enough "challengeable material" to justify lead-refs here. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 22:00, 6 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Concur, but part of the issue here is that the sources themselves are also contested, hence my comment about complaining about the sources. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 16:58, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

These are not fake just because you don't find it tasteful.

There are multiple citations on it clearly mentioning these events.

We don't have earlier sources that deny it.

Bias is one thing but negating an entire event or series of events is completely different Sn cgh (talk) 12:53, 12 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Status update

The controversy surrounding this article seems to have died down now, so hopefully cooler heads can prevail. The fact that we have very few good recent sources that discuss the life of Sambhaji (in the English language anyway, though popular histories of Sambhaji in Indian languages are unlikely to be any better), is obviously a headache for actually improving this article. It still looks like Gajanan Mehendale's Shivaji: His Life and Times is one of the best recent sources on the topic, even if it doesn't directly focus on Sambhaji. Hemiauchenia (talk) 03:11, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]